With regard to a Facebook criticism of Governor Romney for his statements about the recent attacks in Egypt and most tragically in Libya and the resulting comments back and forth, I was tempted to enter in. But I didn't - preferring to address it here in my calmer manner without provoking people I don't even know. For the record, I admit that I generally agree with the sentiments of my actual Facebook friends PB and NB, I just choose to address the issues a little differently. I may fail, as I often do, but the big principles are more important than the details of any particular dispute. My eternal hope being, if we can get the basic principles right, the rest will follow.
The Facebook exchange:
[photo w/verbiage deleted]
The response I typed out on Facebook, then cut and pasted here:
LG- A U.S. Embassy anywhere in the world represents you, me, and all the People of the United States. Both Romney and Obama used this tragedy for political purposes and that is wrong. Romney started and Obama retaliated about "shoot first, aim later." The problem with this whole thing is that once it goes political, everyone falls back on their personal preferences and everything is viewed and interpreted from that perspective. Your use of the words "heartless" and "despicable" in describing the President of the United States tends to confirm this. That's why it's wrong to politicize this when it's a national tragedy and our people were killed. Our solutions lie in unity, not in over-heated rhetoric.I've typed a lot of these comments and then deleted them, some more intemperate than others. Some, of course, became blog postings.
The best principle of all is that we can have these debates in the United States, even with over-heated rhetoric, without shooting at each other. Only the criminally insane seem to be provoked to violence these days. And there's still too much of that. But now that we've generally left the widespread shooting aside since the Civil War and the lynchings, secret murders, bombings, and riots during the Civil Rights movement, we live in a blessed country - with much room for improvement. Let's keep trying.
A friend makes a good point commenting on my FB link:
ReplyDelete"Not sure about your closing comments. In 2009 there were 11,493 firearm homicides in the U.S., that's a lot of criminal insanity."
Yes, way too many gun deaths. Look for my posts on the issue by using "guns" in "search this blog" box (lower right)
To the credit of my friend PB, he and NB (yes, they are related) had this additional exchange privately that PB shared with me and I now have his permission to share with you:
ReplyDeleteNB: why are you friends with LG and SHB? I mean seriously, they are so far to the right they wouldn't believe the president if he told them they looked nice today... I am not commenting on that embassy thing anymore because they are so blinded by hatred of a democratic president, they aren't even able to see the truth.
Oh, and I love you! Thanks for being a voice of reason, even if people see that voice as extreme
PB: SBH and I taught school together at BHS, she's a great friend who stood by me, and Les was a few grades behind me in high school. We can be Friends with people who see things differently, in spite of how others may act
I love you too my son, I'm proud of you for standing up for what you belief in
NB: I was just kidding, I am sure that you have good reasons why you're friends with them, but just wow... I have some friends like that too though did you find the president's reaction "despicable?"
PB: I think you know my answer to Les' comments; he's a bit of a right wing tool, but it makes me laugh to see how uninformed some people are
NB: yeah... I understand
I see the polarizing of political views, to the point of excluding even the thoughts or voices of each other, extremely unsettling. I am constantly amazed that even when I carefully explain MY thoughts on a situation, I am accused of "spouting propaganda" by someone who disagrees with my thoughts. It sometimes gets to the point where simply stating what someone else says, is seen as suspect.
ReplyDeleteI have worked on local and statewide issues, and because of that, I have good friends on both sides of the political spectrum. Often, when I comment on a particular topic, I share my concerns with how the two sides respond to a particular issues, and how those responses concern me. Almost without fail, MY thoughts and concerns are ignored, in favor of accusing me from getting all my information from a biased source, so my thoughts and conclusions are not valid.
Usually my point IS that neither side thinks about how their actions and rhetoric appear to the other side. Of course, the comments prove my point, but I am not interesting in scoring points, I am interested in both sides listening to each other. I am not interested in bringing the two sides together to both agree that I am biased, although often times that seems to be the only thoughts or critiques being offered. When did simply saying "I don't like what you are saying, so I don't have to trust you or anyone who thinks like you" become a response to a political argument?
A comment thread on "By Common Consent" was a good case in point. I posted a quote (marked with quotation marks and a link to the place I found it) and shared my concern that as quotes similar to the one I shared, became a mainstream way of thinking that LDS politicians were going to be open to more scrutiny than they have in the past.
I cited conversations with liberal lawmakers and political operatives, who I know personally, who have shared their excitement that Romney's business practices at Bain, now give them an opening to question other conservative Mormon candidates about their own business practices and beliefs. Before this elections cycle, Mormon candidates had generally been able to count on having the moral high ground, conceided by their opponent and the general public. Unledd there was a particular "bad act" by the candidate themselves, Mormon candidates usually did not have to answer in depth questions on business ethics. The liberals who run Democratic campaigns now see this as something they can back conservative Mormons into a corner on, especially in areas where Mormons are not a natural majority of voters.
When I express this, on Mormon blogs or in conversations with conservative members of the church, I am told that I am wrong, simply because the source for the information comes from liberals. If I was claiming to know what every Mormon believes, I wouldn't ask people who have never been part of the church. If I am talking about what vegetarians think, a barbecue contest in Texas would not be likely to give me much information that would give me what the vegetarians in Texas think. I might find out what non-vegetarians think of them, but that is not the same thing. So, if anyone wants to understand how Mitt Romney's run for the white house will impact other Mormon candidates, only talking to Romney supporters misses the total impact.
I think what bothers me most is that even having contacts and friends in conservative and liberal circles is seen as somehow dishonest. In a comment two weeks ago I included a quote from Fox News, NPR, and the BBC. I actually had people say that if you watched Fox, that you would know that NPR and BBC news *always* lie. I also had people respond that even quoting something from Fox have them legitimacy that was not deserved. If we can't listen and read and watch people who don't always agree with us, how do we expect to have constructing relationships with one another?
Thanks, Julia. Interesting insights. I think it would be a breath of fresh air if "moral high ground" wasn't just about s-e-x.
DeleteYes, well my "classical political science training" which included reading political philosophers and actual politicians through a number of time periods, does come out in my writing. Lol. Very often I end up explaining phrases that are used popularly, but not properly. Generally people who are older than me are especially confused by my "old fashioned" ideas about politics. (I just had my 36th birthday.)
ReplyDeleteI tangentially touch on this in my newest post in my "Proud to Be an American" series, that went up this afternoon.